Bureau of Employment, utterly useless

[THE USELESS SWEDE]

24 Nov 2011, 17:29

So, over the past month I've been trying to extend my work permit, something you have to head to the Bureau of Employment (and Vocational Training) to do and something I expected to be fairly straight forward. By now, at no fault of my own, I've had to re-submit my application three times and I'm running out of time.
I should add that they have no instructions as to what paperwork has to be submitted or where you can get things that you may not have that you need to get from other government agencies. The first application was screwed up by the staff there, as they filed it under the wrong code, this I was only informed about when I returned with my tax papers, as at the time I submitted my application I didn't know what tax papers I had to bring, something they couldn't tell me either, nor could they tell me where I could get them
At least that time around they sent a letter, after I'd already submitted the tax papers telling me I had to submit them...

Called them up earlier today, asking what was going on, as I'd heard nothing. Turns out they wanted additional proof as to why I have a business here and I was told I had to submit additional documents to support my reason for being here. Apparently they'd sent me a letter telling me this, except I never received it and that was nearly two weeks ago. When I get there today, I find out that they're sitting on the letter and it was in fact never sent, thanks a million, how am I supposed to know that I have to submit extra paperwork then?

Then it turns out that on the receipt, you need to attach a copy of the front and back of your current ARC, something again I wasn't told. None of the staff at the "help desk" knows anything about what paperwork has to be submitted and during this mornings call I was told that the handler refused to talk to me by seemingly the only person in that office that spoke comprehensive English. The staff at the "help desk" do not speak enough English to be able to handle these kind of issues, yet they have a specific counter for foreigners.

Now I don't know if I'll get my renewed work permit in time to re-apply for my ARC which means I have potentially thrown away two years stay here if I was to apply for an APRC in the future. The Bureau of Employment's English website is utter crap http://www.evta.gov.tw and there's apparently an online form where you can enter your case number to find out if they're finished with your application or not, but this is only available on the Chinese page as far as I can tell, yet this is their only means of communication unless you call them or go there in person it seems. How can any government agency be this useless? There isn't even anywhere to complain about this, although I'm seriously considering contacting the Swedish trade office here to launch a formal complaint as this is no way to treat someone who's operating a legit business here.

It's not the poor girls fault, they just sit there and take the paperwork, but it's annoying when they don't speak enough English to do their jobs (yes, I should learn Chinese, but I haven't so...). The problem is that it's utterly and abysmally poorly organized and there are no clear instructions as to what you need to supply, not in English, not in Chinese. The first time around I had someone scribble down what I needed from the tax office, but they didn't know which tax office I had to go to. The tax office happened to know what I needed (and for those wondering, you have to go to the main tax office where you're registered, not the local one as they are now allowed to deal with foreigners), but of course wanted more papers themselves due to what I think is a little known fact. Apparently, IF you stay more than 90 days in Taiwan in one year, no matter what you do here during those 91+ days, you have to file tax here. It was something I wasn't aware of, nor do I think most people are. So if you've stayed here for more than 90 days for the past 7 years and then apply for a work permit or a renewal, you have to have filed tax for every year you've been here for more than 90 day and yes, they do check with immigrations to see when you've come and gone.
Anyhow, all good "fun" and all to save myself some money, as my accountant wanted NT$10k for this and the actual work permit fee is a mere NT$500, with the tax office papers being free. That said, I've now spent a full working week out trying to get this crap sorted and every time I've submitted more papers, they've reset the submission of my application, so I have no proof of having done it multiple times... Any suggestions as to with regards to some competent government people here I could contact with regards to my complaints in this case would be helpful.

[REPLICANT]

It's not the poor girls fault, they just sit there and take the paperwork, but it's annoying when they don't speak enough English to do their jobs (yes, I should learn Chinese, but I haven't so...) Its her fault for not learning English

That's funny seeing this is a Chinese speaking country. You've been here several years, claim to run a REP OFFICE here which means dealing with local suppliers.

[THE USELESS SWEDE]

It's not the poor girls fault, they just sit there and take the paperwork, but it's annoying when they don't speak enough English to do their jobs (yes, I should learn Chinese, but I haven't so...) Its her fault for not learning English

That's funny seeing this is a Chinese speaking country. You've been here several years, claim to run a REP OFFICE here which means dealing with local suppliers.

Well, considering that they have two people at what is supposed to be an English speaking help desk.... it's actually not that funny.
The lady I spoke to on the phone spoke perfectly good English, but she doesn't work at the help desk so...
And even so, they have no instructions in English as to what papers you have to submit with your application, which would've helped a fair bit.
But whatever... I have been nothing but patient, but this is seriously starting to piss me off by now and if they don't support this, why is there even a service counter for foreigners? It's not as if I was the only foreigner there applying for a work permit either, as on my visits there I saw several other foreigners.

And if Taiwan don't want foreign small businesses here, maybe they should just say so outright instead then?

I don't understand why so many people here are protecting the shitty system, it's broken and needs to be fixed. Saying that it's the way it is doesn't make things better, for anyone, as it's not just about me, it's about every other person here that has their own business in this country. I'm far from the only person having problems, as I've spoken to some of my friends that have businesses here and they're having similar problems. I got the impression that Taiwan wants foreign businesses here, but apparently that was a foolish mistake.

[SANDMAN]

Should have just paid to your NT$10,000 accountant would have this sorted out in an afternoon and you'd have the ARC in hand long ago. Now you're looking more and more fucked and you're running on anxious. The fact is, these things can be sorted out easily if you know what you're doing. Your accountant does. That's why you pay her. You, on the other hand, don't have a fucking CLUE what to do and are now paying the price. Don't blame them. Blame yourself for not knowing how to get things done, surely

[THE USELESS SWEDE]

Should have just paid to your NT$10,000 accountant would have this sorted out in an afternoon and you'd have the ARC in hand long ago. Now you're looking more and more fucked and you're running on anxious. The fact is, these things can be sorted out easily if you know what you're doing. Your accountant does. That's why you pay her. You, on the other hand, don't have a fucking CLUE what to do and are now paying the price. Don't blame them. Blame yourself for not knowing how to get things done, surely

Thanks for the kind words

This is why Forumosa where I started with posting this mess sucks ass at times, there are way too many people here that are anything but helpful. But whatever, I guess I won't bother replying to any more posts here and it seems like there's no point providing a guide for everyone else that wondered how to do this on their own either, as I'm sure there will be plenty of suggestions of getting an accountant to do it instead, as that's much easier... I'm off to have a hissy fit

Well, my accountant isn't a she and no, my accountant would NOT have sorted this out in an afternoon, as there was a lot of extra paperwork involved that only I could've sorted out.
As for my accountant being out of pocket, not really, as I still pay my accountant for other services. You are utterly missing the point here. If there were clear instructions as to what paperwork needed to be submitted, no-one would have this kind of hassle. I don't give a shit about your personal opinions about how things work here or not, that's not the issue here. The matter of a fact is that I haven't had these kind of problems dealing with any other government agency here as they all have fairly clear instructions as to what is needed and they all have staff that speaks enough English for it to not be a problem if they don't.

But please, go on, continue to mock me for the fact that I tried to do something on my own without relying on help from my accountant or anyone else

[SANDMAN]

Mock you?" Oh FFS! Grow some skin, for chrissakes! Nobody's "mocking you," other than pointing out the bleeding obvious.
As for your "guide on how to get this done" I'd say you've already written it right here. Use a CA. Its easier and ultimately a LOT cheaper

[THE USELESS SWEDE]

28 Nov 2011, 22:52

Well, just so the sour lot here will know, the application was approved in a record time of 3 days, now I'm just waiting for it to be finalized so I can go get my ARC renewed. It really was just a matter of supplying the right amount and right kind of paperwork and they were all happy. So much for the conspiracy theorists here...

[HEADHONCHO11]

28 Nov 2011, 22:52

Well, just so the sour lot here will know, the application was approved in a record time of 3 days, now I'm just waiting for it to be finalized so I can go get my ARC renewed. It really was just a matter of supplying the right amount and right kind of paperwork and they were all happy. So much for the conspiracy theorists here...

Glad to see you got your permit approved, been there and done that too many times. Any hang-ups I had were usually from one dept not fully co-ordinating with another dept, or not actually knowing where to get the stuff. It's just a process and you have to patient and sometimes a little annoying to get anywhere.

[THE USELESS SWEDE]

I have already contacted the utterly useless Bureau of Employment with my concerns and explained in some detail what could be done to improve the application process. That said, it seems like my email was ignored as I haven't heard anything back. Thanks for the tip though and I'll do some digging to see if I can't get hold of the correct people.

That said in the end it seems like they processed my application in record time and I'll be going over to collect it tomorrow and apply from my new ARC.

And yes, they're still mostly useless, as in as much as they process the application quickly, it doesn't help when you're being told different things every time. Had I been informed it was pointless submitting the application until I've had the tax papers, I wouldn't have submitted it the first time around and the fact that they never posted the letter telling me that they needed additional information keeps them in the mostly useless category, as that helped waste over a weeks time when I wasn't aware what was going on.

To some of you this is obviously not an issue, but considering how easy the overall application process is and how cheap it is, there really is no reason to pay an accountant to do this, once you know what needs to be submitted, which apparently the utterly usless staff at the Bureau of Employment doesn't know. It seems like emailing the Bureau of Employment did help, at least a bit, as they're now going to implement at least the search function on their English website so it's easier to find out when the application has been processed or if additional paperwork needs to be submitted. They're also going to look into how they do things and hopefully provider more detailed information in the future, so there.

[REPLICANT]

That said in the end it seems like they processed my application in record time and I'll be going over to collect it tomorrow and apply from my new ARC.

And yes, they're still mostly useless, .

So how about you post us on what utterly useless documents you needed to provide that you hadn't done so already. You could give us a list of documents required either in English or in Chinese. By the way when they say they need a copy of your ARC or ID card you always need to copy both sides, bit of a no brainer on that one as there is information on both sides.