MY FRIEND RACIALLY PROFILED AND SHOT BY COPS

[JIMIPRESLEY]

Why on earth do you give a shit?

[serial killer on parole]

ThreadKiller » Sat Aug 24, 2013 23:39

The facts will come out over time, no doubt.What surprises me about this whole thread is how much vitriol can be posted about a guy who is going to get punished anyway. Why the extreme glee and spite now that another foreigner has gotten into trouble? And why the antagonism towards friends who want to help? It seems trollish. He will be punished and his life will be changed forever. He is going to get it. The damage has been done. So, why does there seem to be a need among certain posters to get all worked up about the fact that friends are helping him? The said friends are not helping him escape the system. They are simply being friends. His actions were horrendous, but that needn't negate any good he has done. Hey - I'm not one of those happy clappy fundamentalists, but I think we would all do well to stop throwing stones, and forgive a little.

What would you do if a friend fucked up badly? Write him off completely or try to help him in a responsible way?

Nobody has any glee that some person acted like this. More like we are horrified by his actions. Too bad the shot guy has been the one throwing stones at others before on the forums.

[hannibal the rodeo star]

Dragonbones wrote:

ThreadKiller wrote: It seems trollish.

KaCHING!

Nonsense. This is a public forum, boys, where things are discussed, questioned, speculated upon. If you don't want to read it, don't open it.
It is interest.

Novaspes wrote: Oh man, so many questions. Also, it's difficult to hear you from down here. Try to get off that horse and we might talk better.

This seems trollish. I never claimed any high ground, with the possible exception of saying I try and stay away from slow moving train wrecks.

Novaspes wrote:

ThreadKiller wrote: What would you do if a friend fucked up badly? Write him off completely or try to help him in a responsible way?

Man, am I glad I am not friend of people picking option #1

Sure, but he's not my friend. Different rules apply.

Why do I care jimbo? Two words: Ma Ke. Another reason: self-destructive people always end up hurting the people around them.

[serial killer on parole]

ThreadKiller » Sun Aug 25, 2013 00:25

Hannibal teh rodeo star wrote: Sure, but he's not my friend. Different rules apply.

He's not my friend, either. Apparently, I have met him once or twice. I just feel for him because I know we can all stuff up really badly. And I don't feel as happy when a foreigner comes a cropper as some others. You need to be pretty twisted to enjoy that.

Hannibal - my point is that I just can't possibly understand why people would keep posting maliciously against someone they don't even know. It merely reflects badly on the posters and on humanity in general.

This thread is teaching me - if nothing else - how mean the internet can be.

And this coming from a guy who has boasted on how many threads he has killed on forums with his trolling.

Jaboney » Sun Aug 25 Why assume its malicious? Drinking and driving touches a lot of people in very bad ways. Pain and honest outrage are at least as likely maliciousness. People who place others' lives in jeopardy for no good reason can't really expect much slack... support from friends, maybe. People at large? Extreme embarrassment is entirely appropriate when someone shames himself so thoroughly and publicly. Answering some tough questions comes with moving on out of the sin bin after that. Hopefully, so too are some quiet words of support and a reminder of how much better a person you are, on any given day, from people who also know you well, not just one or two of the dumber things you've done.

Tony doesn't like his friends names to be in the papers. Next thing Tony will be asking his expat friend to turn up in court in a show of support for his drunken crash buddies. I hope he stays away now that Tony has found a job.

[DR SPOCK]

Dragonbones » Sun Aug 25, 2013 00:54

Criticism of drunk driving etc. is reasonable. Extreme embarrassment on the part of the perpetrator is reasonable. The antagonism towards friends who explicitly don't condone the behavior in anyway on one hand, but who want to help someone who has been a real friend on the other, is what is malicious. God forbid such critics should ever fuck up and need a friend at that time.

Thanks Jaboney, I know a few people I grew up with who died from drunk driving. Just recently a young guy from Alishan killed himslef head on into a van coming down the mountain. He was on the wrong side of the road. He has a young wife only a few months pregnant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0YiWMbEFkE

[serial killer on parole]

Novaspes » Sun Aug 25, 2013 01:33

The Social Assassin wrote: So you good friends seem to be more in the know. Did he scuffle or didn't he? That is the crux of the story as I see it. It makes his side of the facts indefensible and all the vitriole y'all have mustered up against Rodeo et al seems ill placed. NU?

We friends know his side of the story, plus some details of the investigation that are for now best left unposted on a public forum. What we know or we believe it's irrelevant, for as for as I know no one among the group of friends who is supporting John wants to defend his actions or claim to know what went down that night.

Is he indefensible? Irrelevant, 'cause no one is trying to defend him (apart from his lawyer). Lots of people seem to have a hard time distinguishing "supporting a friend" and "defending his actions".

really?? your friend Jimp has already come out sayiing there is no vidoe evidence and it's all trumped up.

[hannibal the rodeo star]

Jaboney wrote:

ThreadKiller wrote: ...my point is that I just can't possibly understand why people would keep posting maliciously against someone they don't even know. It merely reflects badly on the posters and on humanity in general.

Why assume its malicious? Drinking and driving touches a lot of people in very bad ways. Pain and honest outrage are at least as likely maliciousness. People who place others' lives in jeopardy for no good reason can't really expect much slack... support from friends, maybe. People at large?

Extreme embarrassment is entirely appropriate when someone shames himself so thoroughly and publicly. Answering some tough questions comes with moving on out of the sin bin after that. Hopefully, so too are some quiet words of support and a reminder of how much better a person you are, on any given day, from people who also know you well, not just one or two of the dumber things you've done.

Malicious would have been me writing every nasty rumor I've heard about this guy over my 18 years in Taiwan. Drunk drivers have touched my life far too often. Most of them will start sucking down beers right after they get out of jail, like nothing ever happened. Will Bubba 2 Guns? I have no idea, and little hope.

Is he indefensible? Irrelevant, 'cause no one is trying to defend him (apart from his lawyer). Lots of people seem to have a hard time distinguishing "supporting a friend" and "defending his actions".

I'd say you have been championing him more than simply supporting him, as though all his "great and wonderful deeds" in the long less than a year you have know him someone negate the severity of his vast recklessness

[hannibal the rodeo star]

Novaspes wrote:

Hannibal the rodeo star wrote: I'd say you have been championing him more than simply supporting him, as though all his "great and wonderful deeds" in the long less than a year you have know him someone negate the severity of his vast recklessness.

Never said anything like that. Please don't make stuff up. Also, it's spelled "somehow".

Well, somehow is correct. Can you find it in your heart or hearts to forgive me?

And no? So, what was that FUCK YEAH a page ago about

[hannibal the rodeo star]

Novaspes » Sun Aug 25, 2013 02:11

Please explain how expressing joy for a partial and preliminary good outcome for my friend within the terms of the law of this country goes with "championing him" and especially how it shows that I am proposing that his "great and wonderful deeds" in the long less than a year you have know him someone negate the severity of his vast recklessness..

Or do you really need me to spell it out for you again, maybe just to make you feel better? What my friend did was idiotic and wrong and the law is dealing with him according to local regulations. No one is bending the rules for him or trying to get him a "get out of jail for free" card. A number of people have expressed sympathy for John and willingness to help him come out of the shitty situation he put himself into. For reasons that I cannot fathom, this is something you don't seem to be able to accept (or even conceive), hence your taking cheap shots and creating "claims" (like the last attributed to me) in what looks like to me to be a desperate attempt to build a straw man argument (or maybe scenario) that you can righteously strike down. Give it a rest.

That was weird. Well, look guys. Strong emotions it is. My wife and I were almost killed a few years back by a drunk driver. Ma Ke did himself in. I hate it. Hate it.

I'm going to make blackberry jam now. See yas

[chewycorns]

The Social Assassin wrote:

I can't help but think how so many of you so chastised me for standing up for my friend so many years ago when he ran afoul of the law. In that case, he fessed up, cleared his friends of wrongdoing and took his punishment like a man. He didn't grass anyone. He didn't endanger any innocent lives with his actions. He went peacefully into that dark dark cell. And he is making the most of his time and has been an inspiration to many who know him in the long years since his incarceration.

Yet these very same posters are now doing the same thing I did and calling out those who question the "facts" of the case. How quickly the coin turns, nu? Look to yourselves dear expats. Reread your posts in the Matty threads and maybe you'll see how these skeptics (of which I don't count myself one) were once your very selves. NU?

Totally agree with Social Assassin. I'd say a lot of how one reacts is not based on right/wrong, but on their association with the person involved. That's fine, but let's freely admit those biases and the emotion that drives them.

When I think of tragedies in Taiwan, I think of Forand, Ma Ke, and now B2G. In the first case, most of the foreign community was very critical of Forand with Social Assassin being pretty much a lone voice of compassion. People were saying he deserved it, that he reaped what he sowed, and that he wasn't representative of most foreigners. In Ma Ke's case, people were also critical commenting on his perceived personality changes in the years before the accident, bannings on the website before his accident, the DUI angle etc.

I was critical of these incidents (although I donated quite a bit to Ma Ke's wife: can't imagine the strength that was needed to work, support a family, and take care of him in his final days), and I am critical of B2G. Drinking and driving or drug trafficking: both a big threat to public safety. Anyone with kids would agree. I can sympathize on a personal level while still agreeing with sanctions provide by the authorities and the right to free speech/commentary about each incident without personalizing it.

Now, with Bubba 2 Guns, there has been a lot more support because he was more well known within the community. That's fine, but people shouldn't be criticizing others that are looking at the incident objectively (through reason rather than emotion), especially considering the history where some of these very same people were quite critical of former expats that ran afoul of the law.