Prison in Taiwan- computer and internet access

[serial killer on parole]

I dont know about that. I doubt logic comes into it when negotiating with ex-wives. And then if you're in jail then you're not much use to your kids. He would also have compounded the problem by (a) jeopardizing his source of income (b) demonstrating to his children that bad people always win and (c) acquiring a criminal record which will ensure he will not be able to do anything in Taiwan (should he find a way to stay) except become a taxi driver or a politician. I think it would be better to stay away, maintain whatever contact he can (email/phone) with the kids until they're old enough to understand his side of the story and make their own life plans (and travel arrangements).

There is far more to the story than PGDADDY lets on. Why did the UK court give his ex sole custody and access and give him no rights?

[NORTHCOAST SURFER]

He's not facing criminal charges for fathering kids and it's definitely NOT for adultery! He's facing possible criminal charges for "hacking" his wife's email account. Please read these two threads in their entirety before you make up false accusations and rumors! Pgdaddy has been through the ringer and now he's contemplating a move back to Taiwan which could result in dire consequences. Let's do our best to lend him a hand.

How is my son going to be, growing up in Taiwan without me?

Need help locating my son, Leo Wang

Here's the first post of the original thread.


pgdaddy on October 21, 2009 wrote:

I need a little advice from fellow Forumosans who have mixed-race children growing up in Taiwan.

I am a foreign father of a three year boy. His mother is Taiwanese, and despite the fact that she has only let me see him once in the last 14 months (in her lawyer's office for three hours), used gangsters to snatch him from me, and has denied me any communication with him at all, the court has done absolutely nothing to oblige her to let me see him (despite my lawyers obtaining a provisional court order). The court has indicated that she will get custody despite of all that she has done and that it is clear she will never let me see him again. My lawyers tell me that we can apply for custody to be changed or that the court will "hopefully" enforce my final visitation rights, but from my experience with the Taiwanese courts so far I don't have any faith in this happening.

She has also filed charges with the police against me for "crimes" such as going into her e-mail once (which I did to try to check on my son's location after she snatched him), which unbelievably has actually got to court. She is obviously trying to get me a criminal record, imprisoned or forced out of the country. It is difficult to avoid the conclusion that the whole system is prejudiced against me, because I am a foreigner. Yes, I have heard stories about " the foreigner father who won custody of the child" and have met one such father in person, but they are the lucky minority. I have also used several lawyers here with no success, and at considerable expense .

I am living outside Taiwan now, and will only come back to see my son. I have been through the most unimaginable hell but need to come to terms with the fact that I may have to let go, to accept the fact that I will not see my son for many years, until he comes to find me later. He was always a Daddy's boy and it hurts so much. But I could let go if I knew he was happy. I worry so much how it will be for him in school, where he may be the only mixed race or foreign child. I know the Taiwanese love to point out those who are different and make it very clear to them that they are different, but also that they like to idolise mixed-race children, albeit superficially.

I am worried that my boy will be sad and confused, particularly because his mother will lie and tell him that his Daddy "doesn't love him anymore" and has "run away".

If any other people have some words of hope to offer about how my little boy may grow up here , it would give me some comfort.

[PGDADDY]

Thanks for your ideas and kind thoughts all .... well the adultery charge was never filed, the charge against me is classified as "computer crime" with a maximum 3 years in jail- I went into my ex's e-mail account once and did nothing with it except read her e-mails, trying to find out if our son was OK etc .... the circumstances leading up to that were really traumatic, anyway, I confessed to my heinous crime in front of the police (accompanied by my lawyer) and thought that would be the end of it, but finally I was indicted in my absence.

All very silly really and I doubt I would get a jail sentence, probably a fine- but it's being remanded in custody while awaiting trial (which one lawyer said was a possibility) which is the main worry for me. And added to that, I am going to have a criminal record I may be asked to leave Taiwan anyway after the court case.

I don't know if Mom 1 could actually drop the charges against me even if she wanted to, now I have been indicted ?

It was dumb of me to even think that I might be allowed my computer and internet access in jail, particularly as I would be classified as a evil hacker .....

NC Surfer I have tried the kind of persuasion you mention, but you know money is not the main motivation to all Taiwanese, especially where emotions are concerned. Mom 1 is obviously still hurt about what happened, I have apologised to her many times for the bad things done from my side (and still await her apology or even acknowledgment for the wrongs she did), which I deeply regret, and made many moves to make peace- she is obviously not ready yet. But I feel that she may be ready in the future- when I call she tries her best to get our son to speak to me (he's not interested of course, six-year old boy who hasn't seen his absentee Dad for 3+ years ), so I feel quite sure that she will let him come to visit me when he is older. It could be a hell of a lot worse; I am thankful that the two mothers clearly think their sons are the most important thing in the world to them, love them dearly and are doing their best to give them a good life with a bit of financial help from Dad. Could be a lot, lot worse.

Actually I have found the local Taiwanese lawyers tell things straighter than the foreign lawyers (meaning English speaking "contact persons" for a local law firm, because foreign lawyers are not permitted actually act as attorney in Taiwan courts correct ?). I did contact a certain foreign law firm (no names mentioned, but let's say that if this post was in the Legal forum, it might well be moderated ) to ask for advice on my predicament and the lawyer suggested, in quite a long message, aggressive counter-litigation in a kind of battle of attrition against my ex. Now we all know that the only winner from that would have been this law firm's bank balance. When I wrote to the same lawyer later asking for some practical advice on how I could clear the charges so to be able to return to Taiwan, he never answered.

Probably the most realistic advice I got when I was first denied access to my first child was from a local lawyer who basically said "you haven't got a chance, don't waste your money". This attitude angered me then and I chose not to believe him and proceed to waste my money on those lawyers who did agree to take on my case. But of course - he was right.

[PGDADDY]

Taiwan, like Japan, is not a signatory to the Hague Convention on Aspects of International Child Abduction. It's a toss up which is worse for foreign parents, Japan or Taiwan. From what I have read, in Japan the courts will do absolutely nothing, basically possession is 99% of the law, and the longer the child is living together with the abductor parent, the less reluctant the courts will be to change the "status quo". Visitation rights for non-custodial parents are derisory.
In Taiwan visitation rights are a little better- like once every two weeks for half a day. And there is a court procedure for enforcing these rights. However in practice this procedure is just a joke - the court goes through all the movements just to save everybody's face. Costly and so painful emotionally for the parent who has the hope of seeing their child dashed. Any parent determined to prevent the other access to the child can do so with impunity. And in my personal case , the court added insult to injury by giving my ex the right to sue for the total of the maintenance payments up to when our son is 21, if I miss a single payment.
I have always insisted to the lawyers I used that the court system in Taiwan is prejudiced against foreigners, which they all deny. Maybe I am wrong, I can only speak from my own experience.

The father appears to be at a disadvantage in court nowadays though, as custody is normally given to the mother. That's for those who actually go through court, which I would imagine is the minority. A friend who knows someone who works in Social Services tells me that they have more cases where the father denies access to the mother . This denial of access to the child to punish the other parent unfortunately appears to be the "Taiwanese way" .
Whichever way you look at it, it's the child that suffers most.

[BLACKCRUSADER]

I have always insisted to the lawyers I used that the court system in Taiwan is prejudiced against foreigners, which they all deny. Maybe I am wrong, I can only speak from my own experience.

The father appears to be at a disadvantage in court nowadays though, as custody is normally given to the mother. That's for those who actually go through court, which I would imagine is the minority. A friend who knows someone who works in Social Services tells me that they have more cases where the father denies access to the mother . This denial of access to the child to punish the other parent unfortunately appears to be the "Taiwanese way" .
Whichever way you look at it, it's the child that suffers most.

Simply you are quite wrong. Myself and several other foreign fathers who have been divorced here have custody of their children, including where the courts gave sole custody and access of the children to the foreign fathers. There are many reasons you did not get custody of your children, especially from a UK court.

[PGDADDY]

At the time I would have done anything and everything to get my son out of Taiwan. Desperation however, always leads to further trouble. I was scammed for a very large sum of money and put through sheer hell by a con-man working for the biggest PI agency in Taiwan. I used other PI agencies to try to locate my son for the enforcement of the court order (per the advise of my lawyers, a joke now as the court never enforced the order), they were dishonest as well.

Using an external agency to try to smuggle your child out of Taiwan just isn't going to work, it will end in tears and a great loss of money.

My first son was born in Taiwan, so his mother is right to feel that he should not leave. She shouldn't have used gangsters to snatch him, lie to the court and police, disobey court orders etc. however at the end of the day she was just scared to lose him, and did things the "Taiwanese way".

If my child was born in the UK, it would be reasonable to expect me to do anything I could to stop him being removed from the country. I say if, but in fact this is not a hypothetical situation. Earlier this year, my second son was abducted from the UK back to Taiwan by his mother, who it goes without saying is also Taiwanese, in mid winter and at the age of only two months old. I woke up one morning, my partner and son had gone- my phone line disconnected, mobile SIM card removed and car keys hidden. I called the police and they ordered an all-ports block but too late, she had already left the country with him.

Miraculously (well actually it involved paying a lot of money, or I should say more money, to my partner to persuade her to return to the UK), they did return. Which is where we are now. I was ready to forgive and forget, however she continued to abuse me emotionally and has real anger management problems (which she also did the first time she was in the UK) and finally I had enough. A couple of weeks ago, I took our son to go to the park and never returned. He is with me now and I will not take any risks again, I don't even want to let her see him because I am scared of what she might do. I know what desperation does to people.

His mother has lied to me, extorted money from me to reunite me with our son, and now disposed of/ sold some valuables such as my computer and passport and even lied to the police about this. She is suffering terribly from missing her son now, as any mother would be, and I feel for her. It's cutting me up inside. Because I know what she is going through. I feel deeply sorry for her. I still tell her that if she can sort herself out, I want to reunite with her in the future, I don't want our son to grow up without his mother, and being a single parent is no party. She shows no sign of understanding why what she has done to me has hurt me so much. But all of my senses tell me that I need to be hard, that I would be crazy to give her another chance.

Sorry, I had to get this out. I started this thread with my original story and now with my second son, the whole situation is like a mirror image. That's why I am more at peace with what the mother of my first son did, even though how she did it was reprehensible. I am with my little boy now, he's in the bed sleeping as I type, he's seven months old and doing just great, the happiest and most wonderful baby.

[SANDMAN]

WTF? I mean, WTF? There is definitely more to this than meets the eye. What is it about you that attracts the weirdoes? Or are YOU the weirdo? Twice?
Whatever. It appears that you've now abducted your child. I wish you luck, but dude, I'm seeing a prison cell and your kid taken into care.
What the HELL are you DOING?

Come ON, dude! TWO different kids with TWO different women and custody battles with BOTH of 'em? Call me idiotic all you like, but that 'AINT your average bear by ANY means. So lay with the comments. I DID think before I posted. And damn! Your story makes people THINK!
More than meets the eye, that's for DAMN sure.

[PGDADDY]

OK, these are my final words here.

1. If you were in a situation where your partners behaviour and emotional abuse is actually putting the child at risk, including the risk of being abducted away from you again, then you would do the same as I have done. Unfortunately in this kind of terrible situation there is only one winner. I'm a peaceful person, sure not easy sometimes like anyone. I have never abused a woman in any way and have always been a peacemaker. I've been unlucky, stupid, whatever, and yes been a bad judge of character.

There is a lot more to my story of course, but if you knew the rest then you wouldn't think worse of me- it's just that there is a lot to tell and this is a forum, not a novel. And now I am certainly not inclined to tell any more.

2. My biggest issue/ problem is that I was stupid enough to post my story here- and I regret that now after the comments that some of you have made. It looks like living in Taiwan has seriously got to some of you.

From now on I will limit my postings to the divorce/ legal forum where at least I have something to contribute, this will be my last post on the parenting forum, at least regarding my own personal situation. Thank you anyway to those of you that have made kind comments and offered to help.

Now I will get back to looking after my wonderful son and giving him the future he deserves.

[BLACKCRUSADER]

TaipeiSean » 27 Jul 2010, 21:14

My son is safe with me in Taiwan as I have legal custody of him here, but I am a little worried of him being taken and have a few safeguards in place. But it was her family who said they would take care of things "the Taiwanese way."

What I am worried about is when I go back to Australia, she may try to take me to the family court to try and get custody, or joint custody, my ex is now an Australian Citizen thanks to our marriage. The Aussie courts usually favour the mothers, but unfortunately and very sadly there have been a few cases, one only last week where one of the parents has killed the child/children to hurt the other parent. There has been a lot of public outrage about this. So as my ex-wife tried to kill herself and my boy, I hope they will accept the evidence I have for that as well as the court documents for that case and use those recent terrible cases in Australia as a precedent.

I would like to think that she is over it all and moved on instead of lying in wait for the opportunity to finish what she tried last time. But my boy's safety is my priority and I just don't know how I can ever trust someone who has done what she did. Actually I have let her see my boy and spend time with us, both here and in Australia when we have returned for vacations, but with safeguards in place. She seems OK these days, pleasant and even thanked me for taking such good care of our boy.

[DIVEA DIVYA NARANG]

So your second son, will never see his mother and/or her side of the family???

PGdaddy, you never had ANY fear about it. Ever. You always spoke openly about it, its only when I used it to call you out and you want to gather sympathy for 'Leo's sake' and all that that you made me delete my posts.