WHY I AM TAIWANESE, NOT A FOREIGNER

Re: WHY I AM TAIWANESE, NOT A FOREIGNER

Postby BLACKCRUSADER » Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:22 am

SANDMAN wrote:What about their peers, though? The Wee's teachers are great, too. Its the other kids that will become more of a concern as the years progress.


Well fortunately their peers will be fine. It's only a concern when the foreign parent keeps calling this country a two bit shithole as you do so often. Cyborg Ninja has no issues with going to school in Taiwan just as any other normal kid does.
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Re: WHY I AM TAIWANESE, NOT A FOREIGNER

Postby BUBBA 2 DUMB » Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:25 am

Bismarck wrote: I'm not South African



...anymore.
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Re: WHY I AM TAIWANESE, NOT A FOREIGNER

Postby MAOMAN » Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:28 am

Kids learn from their teachers. The question is, what are they going to learn from us? Resignation to the status quo?

I'm a pretty tolerant guy, especially when it comes to situations where my kids might be adversely affected by my brashness, but that doesn't mean I'm going to accept situations that can be easily and gently corrected. And I'm no fool, I know that I'm not going to make a big difference. But on the other hand, it's important to me that my kids see me stand up for them when they're young. They don't have to accept being viewed as "half" anything as being normal. I'm raising them to love both their countries wholeheartedly, and I expect their compatriots from both countries to respond accordingly.
By the way, my real name is Tony. Next time you see me call me by that name.

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Re: WHY I AM TAIWANESE, NOT A FOREIGNER

Postby BLACKCRUSADER » Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:31 am

MAOMAN wrote:Kids learn from their teachers. The question is, what are they going to learn from us? Resignation to the status quo?

I'm a pretty tolerant guy, especially when it comes to situations where my kids might be adversely affected by my brashness, but that doesn't mean I'm going to accept situations that can be easily and gently corrected. And I'm no fool, I know that I'm not going to make a big difference. But on the other hand, it's important to me that my kids see me stand up for them when they're young. They don't have to accept being viewed as "half" anything as being normal. I'm raising them to love both their countries wholeheartedly, and I expect their compatriots from both countries to respond accordingly.



Stus Quo? How can that be. Your children are Taiwanese by birth with a Taiwanese mother but you both refuse to speak to your children in Chinese. In fact when I tried speaking to them in Chinese you berated me saying they only speak English. Your choice but it was one that now affects your eldest as she is now having to go to school at 5 years old not being able to speak Chinese. You expect compatriots from both countries to respond accordingly> How can that be if your kids cannot speak the local language of the country they are raised in?
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Re: WHY I AM TAIWANESE, NOT A FOREIGNER

Postby DIVEA DIVYA NARANG » Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:33 am

I haven't ever taught my kids to love any place in particular. They just need to have a good life wherever they are, no matter where they are. I try to avoid all kinds of labels for my children. What they learn at school it can't be helped, but I have always tried not to call tell them their gender, nationality, religion or race. So they're pretty well adjusted wherever they go and who ever they meet.
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Re: WHY I AM TAIWANESE, NOT A FOREIGNER

Postby BUNKS » Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:34 am

People are largely stubborn and require categories which don't change. Kal El and others are shifting the boundaries of a category which many people have decided can't be shifted. "White people are Taiwanese now?" It is too hard to deal with, so they create a lot of nice little stories to tell themselves because that is easier than breaking apart the category... cos once that one is broken... another could be broken... and we spend our lives trying to make sense of things within a framework we have already shut off. In London it's fine for me that my neighbours are black, yellow, brown, whatever and are English to me because I was born looking at them and they were introduced to me as being English. When my cousin visited he had a hard time seeing my neighbours as English because he was brought up being shown examples of white people representing 'English.'

Kal El is a naturalised Taiwanese to me because his passport says he is and legally he is and he says he is. I don't have a problem with it.
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Re: WHY I AM TAIWANESE, NOT A FOREIGNER

Postby Bismarck » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:17 pm

BUBBA 2 DUMB wrote:
Bismarck wrote: I'm not South African


...anymore.


Exactly.
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Re: WHY I AM TAIWANESE, NOT A FOREIGNER

Postby John Ross » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:23 pm

Bismarck, You were a fully formed man were you not when you jumped ship and washed up upon these alien shores?
Most of the influences that have shaped you predate that first arrival, and a few scribblings of ink upon parchment don't overturn that.
Ergo, your arse is still white, and you're still basically a Saffer
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Re: WHY I AM TAIWANESE, NOT A FOREIGNER

Postby Bismarck » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:23 pm

John Ross wrote:Bismarck, You were a fully formed man were you not when you jumped ship and washed up upon these alien shores?
Most of the influences that have shaped you predate that first arrival, and a few scribblings of ink upon parchment don't overturn that.
Ergo, your arse is still white, and you're still basically a Saffer


Really John? Am I now.
Let's see. Of roughly 5 million South Africans, 43 million would disagree with you, citizenship or no. To this majority I am an alien invader and not welcome in Africa, let alone South Africa. To them, I'm simply not African and never will be, so how can you claim I'm South African? To them, I was barely tolerated on "their" continent, and in "their" country. They made these feelings abandantly clear verbally, physically, socially, and ultimately, legislatively (including excluding me from any and all work that I was qualified for). To them, my renunciation and consequent naturalization just made fact a reality. They are the majority. But feel free to go over there and argue your case with them.
The 1 million Indian Saffas and coloured Saffas have their own crosses to bear and probably don't give a shit either way. But according to the coloured Saffa friends I do have in Taiwan, they completely disagree with your assertion. They feel pretty much the same way I do and fervently wish to follow my example, not having been white enough prior to 1994, and not being black enough today I can't say I blame them.
That leaves roughly 4-5 million whites. The English Saffas (notice the term English in that title) will largely agree with me. Those that haven't managed to regain British citizenship through ancestral lineage or who haven't made it to the US, Canada, Aussie or NZ especially so.
The 4 million odd Afrikaners did the most to "influence and shape" me as you put it. For 20 years out of my 27 in South Africa I was never called a South African by any of them. I was always seen as foreign, Engels, n rooinek, n soutpiel, soutie. The little priveledge we were afforded was based on the colour of our skin, but we were reminded of our Englishness at every opportunity. We were physically and verbally abused, called kaffir boeties when the other slanders didn't illicit a response, marginalised in every way they could and generally made to feel like foreigners with a passport. Englishmen at worst, English South Africans only begrudgingly.
It is hard to decide, in retrospect, who they hated more. Us or the blacks. But I think they just feared the numbers of the blacks, and reserved their hatred for us. Because when it finally came to an end in 1994 and they found themselves surrounded by the "black hordes" they feared so much in exchange for legitimate tests against the All Blacks, when they pulled in the laagers and saw their numbers come up short, all of a sudden we, as fellow white South Africans (strange how the English part changed over night), were all basically the same. "Come, come. We must stand together!"
Now we were good enough. Now we were lumped in together with them, by them and the so called "Africans". Now we were all just whites. All unwelcome, but difficult to get rid of. As the then Chief of Military Intelligence said in a weekly meeting, "I can't legally kick you whites out, but I can make life difficult for you. Sooner or later you will all leave of your own accord."

He was right. 1-2 million have left. I am one of them. I never felt South African in all of my 27 years there. They never let me forget it either, until it became convenient for some of them. So, pray tell, John, how am I South African?

You are wrong, and you unknowingly insult me. My arse may be white (I never said I wasn't European), but I was never actually a South African in any of the majority's eyes, and I'm certainly NOT now. Actually or otherwise.
Whether because or underlying racist ideas or plain ignorance you don't agree with me that I'm Taiwanese, fine. We're all entitled to our opinions. I know that the people who matter to me agree with me. I know what I am, and I can choose to be what I am. My ancestors built the Anping fort long before the Han got here. My son's maternal ancestors have been here for 6000 years or more. I'm Taiwanese. I don't care what anyone else thinks on the matter, as it doesn't affect me either way.

And as for South Africa? Fuck them. Fuck their citizenship. And fuck their passport.

I have no more to say on the matter.
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Re: WHY I AM TAIWANESE, NOT A FOREIGNER

Postby John Ross » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Wow, deep breath, another one, good! No need for such drama - it's not as if you've just found out you might be related to Sandman or something equally frightening. I simply stated the obvious, that "Most of the influences that have shaped you predate that first arrival." You are a product of your environment, that's all I'm saying. I'm not talking about ethnicity.

Of course we have multiple identifies and you can be both Taiwanese and South African at the same time.
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