WHY I AM TAIWANESE, NOT A FOREIGNER

[Bismarck]

ThreadKiller » Ignore the naysayers, Bismarck. But also, grow up. What does it matter where you are from?

John Ross wrote: Of course we have multiple identities and you can be both Taiwanese and South African at the same time.

thread killer: Never one for nationalism, I see myself as neither. I'm a pathetic fag who happened to get washed up on Taiwanese shores and kind of liked the place. So, I am staying. Bismarck, I love you and accept that you had a hard time in South Africa, but you have to accept that it doesn't matter how long an Icelander has lived in America, she will still be seen as an Icelander. You are still - I'm sorry - South African, as far as I am concerned. That's not to say that I don't appreciate
everything you went through to get Taiwanese citizenship.

Make a good life for yourself and your son and and don't berate him too much and don't worry about what nationality you are. What does it matter? We are all a little bit off. Nobody is really American or South African or straight or lesbian. And Taiwan sucks about as much as South Africa does. And it shines as much as South Africa does.

Well it matters to me. I am not South African.

[BUNKS]

I guess it is hard for Bismarck, Blackcrusader and others when the very people who you'd expect should be championing the right for them to be seen as naturalised Taiwanese fall so compliantly in line with the bigots and pricks who don't want them to be seen as Taiwanese.

You come and live in England and you get an English passport and I will call you English and I will argue that you are English. I will stand next to you. I might not like you but you get that passport and you are English to me.

Last summer, stop me if you've heard this, I taught in a summer school and one of the teachers was a chap called Amrik. Amrik was born in Bradford, or Leeds, or somewhere equally grim. Now, I am a friendly and approachable chap in real life, not like the reactionary prick you all have bittersweet memories of dealing with, and my students would ask me, "Hey, where is Amrik from?" So I would say he was from Leeds. "No. Teacher, where is he from?" And I am like... LEEDS. "No, teacher you no understand me. Where he born?" ERM... LEEDS. His dad was born in Leeds, he was born in Leeds and if he is shit out of luck his kids will be born in Leeds. What do you want me to say? You want me to say he looks like the people who live in India or Pakistan or Sri Lanka or whereever? You think he is less English than my mate Mr Dale cos they have different skin tones?

I feel sorry for those who naturalise themselves as Taiwanese cos not only do they have local people giving them shit, they also have the expat community shovelling shit on top just for good measure. And I feel slightly ashamed of some of the people in this community and if they spouted their shit in public in England I would tell them to piss of somewhere else.

[BLACKCRUSADER]

I feel sorry for those who naturalise themselves as Taiwanese cos not only do they have local people giving them shit, they also have the expat community shovelling shit on top just for good measure. And I feel slightly ashamed of some of the people in this community and if they spouted their shit in public in England I would tell them to piss of somewhere else.

Actually I don't have locals here giving me shit, in fact they applaud the fact that people from western countries are prepared to renounce their citizenship to get ROC Citizenship here. All the negativity has come from expats and many over the years have lost bets against me when I said I'm Taiwanese, and some have exploded in rage that I dare tell them I'm not a foreigner in the country I live and hold citizenship of.

[JIMIPRESLEY]

Don't listen to the naysayers, Bismarck. You are Taiwanese. You made a brave and honourable decision.

You rock, dude. All or nothing. You're not a pussy.

[DIVEA DIVYA NARANG]

Jimi you're right, Bismarck is no pussy. He can punch you in the face anytime he wishes But what's wrong with dual citizenship? A lot of people wants it, my precious. Even nice people.

Bismarck, sorry but you'll get the you're of western origin, coz all first generation Indians, Pakistanis and Chinese got it. Heck the blacks, who've been in the US for hundreds of years get the African-American crap. No one's saying it's right, but it's there.

And I'd take TK's advice about not berating on the kiddo, he may want to grow up and shun the TW label completely......labels are like that. FWIW, glad you took the citizenship you wanted and hopefully are making the life you want and saving taxes and buying property and whatever else that comes with that I card.

As an aside the citizenship thing is like a sex change, if I know you as a man and you become a woman, I'd respect your womanhood, but you'll still be a man to me....in my head. You maybe waiting for this your whole life, but others are not ready yet, at least, mortally flawed well meaning people. Gods??? They'd accept you in a second!!!! Lesser beings need time. Is all.

[HEADHONCHO11]

What a divide discussion this became? I think Bismarck has the passport, not only that he has put his roots down here and made a long term commitment. So if he says he is Taiwanese I will agree 100%.

I recently brought some folks around Taiwan and a tourist came up to me and told me 'I Canadian'. That kind of perplexed me when the lady barely spoke English and obviously a Chinese or Taiwanese tourist but on dint of her purchasing citizenship somehow thought she could relate to me and mine, apart from the fact I am from another continent entirely!

Anyway...back to the story at hand. Bismarck just happened to be born in South Africa but now has nothing to do with it at all. That's one personal right.

I think people are kicking back at Bismarck because of some rather harsh views to foreign residents in Taiwan, (which I don't agree with either).

Divea, Bismarck doesn't believe in dual nationality.

[MAOMAN]

For me, I guess I care more about a person's cultural orientation. Having met Bismarck on many occasions, I know that he is a good guy, but he's not culturally Taiwanese, at least to me. I'm aware of his nationality, and of his preferences when it comes to nomenclature, so of course I defer. That's just good manners.

When I introduced ChinaCat to my Dad the first time, it wasn't his nationality I mentioned, but his hometown, his profession, his musical interests, and our friendship. All of those things are important parts of his personality, at least to me. Other people might not mention the hometown, but add his love for his dog. Others might not care about his hometown, but mention that he's got a great son. These are all aspects of who we are. I guarantee you that if he were a Mennonite, or a classical guitarist, I would have mentioned that too, because those would be relevant descriptors to my dad. He probably wouldn't care about his blood type, or his astrological sign.

Finally, you'll notice (or not) that Facebook profiles don't even have a space for nationality. Current location? Yes. Hometown? Yes. Nationality? Who cares? That part's just paper. But the place you grew up, attended school, the girls you dated, the movies you saw, the foods you ate, the sports you played, the vehicles you drove, these are important elements of who we are, at least in the aggregate. Nationality isn't race, it isn't ethnicity, it isn't culture, and it isn't a common experience. It's just paper.

[BLACKCRUSADER]

But the place you grew up, attended school, the girls you dated, the movies you saw, the foods you ate, the sports you played, the vehicles you drove, these are important elements of who we are, at least in the aggregate. Nationality isn't race, it isn't ethnicity, it isn't culture, and it isn't a common experience. It's just paper.

I can barely remember the place where I grew up. I remember certain events but overall I can't remember more than a few people I supposedly grew up with and of those they are ones I met in my late teens early twenties. I don't remember much before I was 16 when I started working.

I'm glad to you it's just paper. Also when people ask me where my home town is I tell them its in Tabangu in Alishan. That's my home. Its not the city where I was born and lived for a few years, it's not the city I went to elementary school in, its not the city I went to boarding school in for Junior High school. None of them were ever my "home town".

[MAOMAN]

Jaboney wrote:I think your definition of nationality is overly legalistic. Nationality is (something in) the aggregate; it's the very Theseus' ship of identity.

I disagree. Give me a certain amount of cash, and I could legitimately acquire a new nationality next week. But I'd still be the same guy you know today.

[BLACKCRUSADER]

Jaboney wrote:I think your definition of nationality is overly legalistic. Nationality is (something in) the aggregate; it's the very Theseus' ship of identity.

I disagree. Give me a certain amount of cash, and I could legitimately acquire a new nationality next week. But I'd still be the same guy you know today.

Sure you would be the same Canadian guy running around telling everyone how Canadian he is. But first you'd need to have some money to acquire that new nationality.