MY FRIEND RACIALLY PROFILED AND SHOT BY COPS

[hannibal the rodeo star]

I'm not at all surprise at the vitriol heaped by some foreigners upon any foreigner who gets in trouble here. Taiwan has a unique expat community made up of moralising do-gooders who have never set a foot wrong in life on the one hand, and on the other hand, drug-crazed criminal lunatics who run around offending the moral sensibilities of the former.

I certainly hope I am not thought of being in the former group.

Listen, this incident struck home to me for a couple of reasons I mentioned above, firstly, watching/hearing about so many people I know being hurt or killed due to drunk drivers; secondly, my wife and I nearly being killed by one, and thirdly, by my brother's experiences as a full blown alcoholic. The latter is the freshest because since moving back to NY, we have become quite close, something that never would have happened had he been caught a THIRD time for DUI.

I don't want to get into the details, but when it comes to the info I had on the person under scrutiny here, I hold my second hand knowledge as golden. That's how good and reliable my sources are.

I know every word I wrote in this thread and I stand by them, but you know what? I'm over it. I'm over being furious and I'm moving into compassion. I could easily say I don't care what happens to you, Mr X, and that would be essentially true. However, I do care what happens to many of the people here who had your back. And their children, especially the ones who again, from what I have heard, who have grown very very fond on you. The love of another man's children is a huge gift that should not be thrown away so carelessly.

If I judged you, I did it for my own safety and sense of security. I steer clear of drama as much as possible. In my workaday life, I abhor confrontation. I have brothers and sisters and parents who have given me decades of alcohol soaked drama and I hate it. I have/had no place for yours.

I apologize to my friends here, some of whom may be yours, for microcombing through this situation and gnawing through the bones. That's me. I go with my gut and my gut is usually spot on.

I do honestly hope you haven't fucked yourself out of your life.

[BLACKCRUSADER]

Friends will be friends. Friends come and go.

I am unfortunate enough in my 25 years of living in Taiwan to have known many expats who have died in scooter accidents here. Not one of them had a license to be riding in the first place. It's sad to see that so many people who go abroad lose their commonsense. Free as a bird to do what they like and bugger the consequences. Anyway that won't happen to me it's always somebody else getting killed, injured, deported.

That a long term resident who is a regular drink driver it's only a matter of time before getting caught happens. Too bad his friends who know of this don't try to prevent him from doing so, but they now want to have a support group for him. It's not like there isn't a crackdown gouing on or that this crackdown hasn't been in the media.

I had a client several years back. Leaves Shannon, gets onto Najing East road and gets caught DUI. OK penalties not so severe back then but loses local licence, pays a fine. 3 months later he gets busted again DUI at the same place, being a smart fella pulls out an international drivers license. But not having a good memory its the same cops he got busted in the first place who remember him. Now he's DUI and driving whilst suspended.

This time the penalty if far worse. Being a senior expat for an American firm he was promplty fired. OF course he complains he never had any accidents or hurt anyone. Later on I lost contact with this chap. I asked one of his friends what happended to him after he left Taiwan. Well he was in TExas DUI, had an accident and killed someone and was doing 12 years in a Texas prison. I guess he never learnt his lesson.

Will Bubba 2 Dumb big John Mc Carty learn his lesson? Maybe. It might take some severe penalties. The worst would be jail and deporation as I am sure he would rather stay in Taiwan then be deported.

[REPLICANT]

Lo Pan » 21 minutes ago

Thought experiment for everyone in the "he got what he deserved camp"... Let’s take the DUI out of the equation… I know, I know, Impossible but let’s just say it was possible for there to be a situation where a policeman thinks you have done something wrong and you freak out and try to get away from him... (I know no police in Taiwan have ever looked at any of us that way, but lets just play along )

Once that split second of freaking out is past, there is no going back. You bolt and the policeman chases you… this also makes him very angry (rightfully so)… both of which spike his adrenaline levels. After a few minutes of chase he catches you, rams you and knocks you off your scooter. This (justifiably) self-righteous, angry, adrenaline filled police man “takes you down” with his nightstick on your throat… (possibly a little aggressively in that situation, yes?)

Do you honestly think you will not resist at all as that night stick presses down on your windpipe??? ...just a flinch and you are “resisting arrest” Remember you are jacked up on adrenaline too. ...all of the sudden he is justified in shooting you and there are angry people on the internet baying for blood saying you deserved it. The DUI? Stupid, no excuse Running? Also stupid but we all have moments of lapsed reason Resisting arrest? Stupid but perfectly understandable and we should all hope we are never in that position. Did he deserve to get caught, fined, locked up and a bit of an ass-beating? From the information we have… probably

Did he deserve to get shot? Would you in the above scenario

I would not have put myself in that scenario in the first place. I have no reason to run away from the police. I have been stopped many times at traffic stops where licenses were checked, or where police were looking for crimainls and road blocks had been put in place. Also stopped many times for DUI tests.

So did he deserve to get shot is not the proper question. Deserve, deserve has nothing to do with it.

The police office shot a person resisting arrest and who attempted to flee.

[Deuce Eater]

As per youshall, people get it all twisted. Lets say this happened in March, he gets DUI, loses driving privileges, pays hefty fine and goes to driving class. This is standard punishment in most of the developed world. Now, with Taiwan's over the top reactionary laws, the driver knows the minute he sees the sobriety check point he is going to jail.

BIG DIFFERENCE in fight or flight reaction, all of a sudden the gamble that comes with doing a runner becomes more appealing. Laws need to fit the crime, and while we LOVE to shit on people who get DUIs on this forum, going to jail for driving a scooter drunk is TOO MUCH, and when laws don't fit the crime they don't work.

I realize arguing for drunk driving is a fools errand and I am not condoning it, I just feel jail is too strong a penalty and I have said this several times in many threads on the subject.

[serial killer on parole]

Now, with Taiwan's over the top reactionary laws, the driver knows the minute he sees the sobriety check point he is going to jail.

BIG DIFFERENCE in fight or flight reaction, all of a sudden the gamble that comes with doing a runner becomes more appealing. .

BOLLOCKS. Firstly not all DUI offences result in a jail term. Secondly big John is known for his drinking and then riding. He knows the law full well. He chose to ride drunk, he chose to try an escape.

Maybe you should look at that Big John has no respect for the law or the police. Hes just another road thug who thinks he can do what he pleases and has no regard for other road users. His selfish acts led him to being shot. Even big John doesnt know if he will just get a hefty fine or be sent to jail. That has not been determined by a court yet. Also many jail terms can be converted to a fine here. Just ask ZD's girl friend.

[serial killer on parole]

I realize arguing for drunk driving is a fools errand and I am not condoning it, I just feel jail is too strong a penalty and I have said this several times in many threads on the subject.

Yes you are one of the fools that belives no matter how drunk you are a jail term is too much. BOO FUCKING HOO

[BLACKCRUSADER]

As per youshall, people get it all twisted. Lets say this happened in March, he gets DUI, loses driving privileges, pays hefty fine and goes to driving class. This is standard punishment in most of the developed world. Now, with Taiwan's over the top reactionary laws, the driver knows the minute he sees the sobriety check point he is going to jail.

BIG DIFFERENCE in fight or flight reaction, all of a sudden the gamble that comes with doing a runner becomes more appealing. Laws need to fit the crime, and while we LOVE to shit on people who get DUIs on this forum, going to jail for driving a scooter drunk is TOO MUCH, and when laws don't fit the crime they don't work.

I realize arguing for drunk driving is a fools errand and I am not condoning it, I just feel jail is too strong a penalty and I have said this several times in many threads on the subject.

Can't do the time don't commit the crime. Simple isn't it.

Nobody cares what you think the law should be. You are not the one deciding the laws in this country. This isnt March its August. Maybe you want to get with the program like most other people. drink driving is now a serious offence and the consequences are serious if you get caught. getting drunks off the road into taxis if a good thing. The the death and injury toll will be far less. I spent 4 years or my life and 6 operations and months of physiotherapy because some selfish drunk thought it was a good idea to get drunk after he got his pay, drive, not even realize he had had an accident until they sobered him up

[BUBBA 2 DUMB]

There are two kinds of people in this world, those packing loaded guns who aren't afraid to shoot someone. And the other kind talks about how brave they are, hates authority and talks about guns but doesn't carry any. They end up being on the wrong end of gunsight and get shot.

Which one am I?

Big John's lessons from this.

1. Taiwan Cops are packing.

2. They will shoot you if they have to.

3. It hurts.

4. I won't do it again.

Did I deserve being shot?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpDkYZWeeVg

[LORD LUCAN]

No. Mr He personifies that camp. Quite cringeworthy to read his posts, frankly.

Drink drivers, tailgaters, and car thieves cause a lot of deaths where I live. I have no sympathy for them. And if you are going to leg it from the fuzz, then there are certain consequences to be expected. Although in my opinion being shot from behind is not one of them that I find acceptable, which is my mere opinion. If that is the way the police roll here, than those who live here need to take that into account.

I cannot fail to go in to bat for my friend, and I do find the arrest procedure completely OTT and unnecessary. However, it seems the prosecutor agrees with me, and for that small mercy we can be grateful. Once again a failure to adhere to police procedure (tackling a suspect one-one-one and not waiting for backup) has backfired upon the police because they now have no evidence to support any claim of assault. Why the camera was turned off just before the copper moved in for the arrest we don't know. Now it's a he-says-she-says and the law requires (in Taiwan too) that an accusation of a crime must be supported by evidence. Maybe the video will turn up if the police manage to find it. The suspect has a lawyer that comes highly recommended and all of this sort of thing is naturally left in the hands of m'learned friends.

The minority who revel in other people's misfortune will be putting the champagne on ice I am sure for when the inevitable huge fine is handed down along with the deportation order. I find this a sad end to 22 years in Taiwan and nothing to be smug about, but others will have their own opinions. What would have been, say, a NT$90k fine is now a serious criminal matter. Oh dear oh dear. But what's done is done...

Part of my reason for being here is to try and monitor what's being said and try to give balance in my friend's favour if it is necessary. I've seen Taiwanese journos before reprinting as gospel nonsense posted on the internet, and that really doesn't assist the judicial process when it occurs.

To answer a question that was raised, and to be honest not an unreasonable one: No. There were no drugs involved. Not drug related. The guy was not carrying anything illegal on his person. The only matters the police are currently raising with the prosecutor's office are DUI and evading arrest (obstruction of a public official). No assault charge has been laid. The suspect has been released on bail without having to post a bail bond, has been allowed to retain his passport, and has a bar on leaving the country or changing his residential address.

[angerim]

engerim » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:37

Novaspes wrote: I for one rejoice at the fact that the prosecutor did not judge the Apple Daily reporting as sufficient proof of multiple offenses, which otoh posters on this and other forums seem happy to do.

The prosecutor has to review the police video/evidence first. As far as I know that's still being done. What I'm wondering however, was the video shown in the Apple Daily given by the police to the "reporters"? Not judging Apple Daily or the police here just where I'm from it would never happen or would require ministry level approval.